EZ Pai Gow plays the same as the regular game with an important exception: EZ Pai Gow replaces the taking of the commission on every player’s winning hand by pushing one specific Dealer’s hand – a Queen high Pai Gow. A Pai Gow is a hand of seven different ranks which does not contain a straight, a flush, a straight flush, or a royal flush. Sep 11, 2019 Introduction EZ Pai Gow Poker is a commission-free pai gow poker variant. Instead of the usual 5% commission, if the dealer has exactly a queen high 5-card hand, then the hand will automatically resolve in a push. In addition, there are four side bets the player may wager on.
This past weekend, I played Pai Gow Poker at the Golden Nugget. They have Commission Free variety, which waives commission in exchange for barring a 9-high front hand. Having played Dan's EZ Pai Gow, which bars the Queen-high back hand instead, I had a thought.The premise of these barrings is to convert what is supposed to be a winning hand into a push. Occasionally, it will push a hand that would have pushed anyway, and in some cases, a loss will be converted to a push. (Example: get a jack-high Pai Gow in EZPG.)
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Which of the two games is more likely to convert a losing hand into a pushing one and by what margin? In EZPG, it would have to be a jack-high or lower. In CFPG, it feels like there are more ways to do it, since a 9x in front often indicates a bonus in back.
Also, in which of the two games does the bar happen more often, and by what margin? I'm assuming CFPG because the insurance wager only pays 30:1 instead of 50:1.
This past weekend, I played Pai Gow Poker at the Golden Nugget. They have Commission Free variety, which waives commission in exchange for barring a 9-high front hand. Having played Dan's EZ Pai Gow, which bars the Queen-high back hand instead, I had a thought.
The premise of these barrings is to convert what is supposed to be a winning hand into a push. Occasionally, it will push a hand that would have pushed anyway, and in some cases, a loss will be converted to a push. (Example: get a jack-high Pai Gow in EZPG.)
Which of the two games is more likely to convert a losing hand into a pushing one and by what margin? In EZPG, it would have to be a jack-high or lower. In CFPG, it feels like there are more ways to do it, since a 9x in front often indicates a bonus in back.
Also, in which of the two games does the bar happen more often, and by what margin? I'm assuming CFPG because the insurance wager only pays 30:1 instead of 50:1.
The margin is this:
EZ Pai Gow has the Bally's 'similar game' beat by a margin of one in 58 hands any rare forced push hand, versus about one in 34 hands push as a forced pushed on with Bally's product. This is because the Bally's game is really using the dealer's hand Pai Gow pushes to obtain the house edge, to remove the commission with a dealer's Pai Gow when a 9 card is present, but with some extra redundant 'push anyway' hands that also have a 9 and simply get included in and added in. We've noticed this. I will stop here on this.
This may seem a bit of a conflict, - and it is indeed, - but having said that, we are hoping and do believe that there'd be very warm and cordial resolution to this all in the end.
On the game, 1 in 34 hands on Bally's game is 50%-plus more often than one in 58 EZ Pai Gow hands. That's more bad beats for the player on Pai Gow poker because flushes over straights type winning hands are now denied. So, if you have a strong hand win (such as a Flush with a jack on top), it won't win against a dealer's straight, or Ace-high Pai Gow, or King high Pai Gow, or whatever hand with a 9 on top - which would otherwise play - and pay out - for the equivalent player's real win in EZ Pai Gow.
With Bally's product, you get stuck with more bad-beat denied wins to you on their game. The 50% + difference adds up in terms of the player game experience; while both add up to a similar house edge, - you now cannot win on a 'squeaker' win, and these upsets are more common now. At least in EZ Pai Gow, the low Queen-high hand was never a close bad beat like having a flush over a dealer's straight denied to you. The simple Queen-high means 'okay, next hand....'
By contrast, Galaxy's new commission-free game 'Commission-Free Emperor's Challenge' (going live in Delaware soon), uses an even more rare 'push' hand when the player has a joker hand of a rare combination, so the dealer never gets a non-qualifying hand that can deny the winner playing a win on his strong hand. This was invented by Derek Webb, who also invented Three Card poker.
All in all, it looks like the annoying commission that short-changes you on the game is finally leaving us, with mechanisms of varying elegance.
All in all, it looks like the annoying commission that short-changes you on the game is finally leaving us, with mechanisms of varying elegance.
But you can't bank any of these games can you? That is a serious problem for people that traditionally play this game.
Pai Gow Online
I have played in many Pai Gow home games and none of those players would ever play a PGP game they couldn't bank. That is part of the point of the game. I understand there are a lot of $10 bettors that feel otherwise, but there are a lot of $100 players that agree with me there. While I think these EZ versions are great, I hope they don't make the traditional version extinct.But you can't bank any of these games can you? That is a serious problem for people that traditionally play this game.
I have played in many Pai Gow home games and none of those players would ever play a PGP game they couldn't bank. That is part of the point of the game. I understand there are a lot of $10 bettors that feel otherwise, but there are a lot of $100 players that agree with me there. While I think these EZ versions are great, I hope they don't make the traditional version extinct.
I hear you, I got that.
But no-commission PGP may [sadly] make player banking extinct. [My real/honest sentiments are 'not too sadly....']
On player banking, the [casino] house suffers a HUGE reduction in house edge, - along with tremendous problems and operational snafus when operating player banked games in the pit. With EZ Pai Gow - and I designed this game - our official 'recommended practices' is to bar player banking on EZ Pai Gow, and out of about 100 installs, there are TWO houses that allow it. 2%. On extremely rare occasions it was allowed for the sake of a sale, and the installs consistently performed less well.
The loss of player banking is a huge gain to the casino house in terms of efficiency and dealer performance, as well as a huge elimination of player altercation issues on live games, as well as a small loss - trivial - house edge favor to some smart-@ss player who wishes to show off his Pai Gow Poker Braggadocio by banking to a table full of players who'd wish that player would get lost.
Furthermore, the elimination of player banking actually improves Pai Gow Poker table-relations for 99% of the non-banking players and 100% of the dealers, it just smooths out and simplifies table games operations so effectively it will be gone very soon, outside of player-banked card rooms, - and this is on top of the operational efficiency provided. If you look at this issue from a casino operations Point of view, player banking on Pai Gow poker will be gone very soon, and I have to agree with this. Player banking on Pai Gow Poker has been nothing but operational messes mixed in with some player Braggadocio when doing so, and you must realistically expect its absolute departure fairly soon. It'll be as rare as 3:2 single deck, essentially and effectively gone.
It's been the red-headed step child in the casino pit that's now receiving its final dose of arsenic and funeral Mass. It really gone beyond its way out.
'Recommended Practices' to eliminate Player banking are being replace by Mandatory Practices for Pai Gow Poker to eliminate it once and for all, and codified into new Pai Gow Game regulations.
I know it'll be missed. Doesn't matter, it's a change that'll be a footnote piece of nostalgia. It's already 99% complete on the new games.
Traditions die. No American man wears a Fedora [hat] any longer when out in public. It used to be de rigueur in our culture 60 years ago.But you can't bank any of these games can you? That is a serious problem for people that traditionally play this game.
I have played in many Pai Gow home games and none of those players would ever play a PGP game they couldn't bank. That is part of the point of the game. I understand there are a lot of $10 bettors that feel otherwise, but there are a lot of $100 players that agree with me there. While I think these EZ versions are great, I hope they don't make the traditional version extinct.
Where do you play? It might be a regional thing. Where I work here in WA, we had Fortune Pai Gow before, and replaced it with Progressive Fortune Pai Gow. It's one of our most popular games, and we have exactly two players who bank with any sort of regularity. Furthermore, I have never seen anyone in the act of banking anywhere else.
With EZ Pai Gow - and I designed this game - our official 'recommended practices' is to bar player banking on EZ Pai Gow, and out of about 100 installs, there are TWO houses that allow it. 2%.
How does the Queen-high bar translate in those cases? Does a player-banker's queen-high push the whole table? Does a player-banker's queen-high push the dealer?
When that is the case, none of the commission free versions make sense to the players. It is a clearly a regional phenomena and I was shocked that so many WA house would operate comm. free without compensation.....I found this out trying to talk up Dan's game at a property back in 2011. The TG Manager said 'we already offer commission free PGP & the players are not even required to make a minimum side bet'.....it was a learning experience for me.
Where do you play? It might be a regional thing. Where I work here in WA, we had Fortune Pai Gow before, and replaced it with Progressive Fortune Pai Gow. It's one of our most popular games, and we have exactly two players who bank with any sort of regularity. Furthermore, I have never seen anyone in the act of banking anywhere else.
With EZ Pai Gow - and I designed this game - our official 'recommended practices' is to bar player banking on EZ Pai Gow, and out of about 100 installs, there are TWO houses that allow it. 2%.
How does the Queen-high bar translate in those cases? Does a player-banker's queen-high push the whole table? Does a player-banker's queen-high push the dealer?
In cases where an EZ Pai Gow house allows player banking, the player-banker doesn't get to use a queen-high push; his hand plays for the probable loss as the hand that was dealt. The rule is 'Dealer's Queen-high Pai Gow pushes' - not the player's, even if banking. Players don't get the house edge mechanism.
Furthermore, the commission IS restored during banking - for the banker only. Non-banking players do not pay a commission at any time. And since there are no 25c pieces in the rack, the player-banker's commission is also rounded up to the nearest whole dollar.
It has been my experience in WA that many houses don't collect a commission on PGP and reduce the HE to copies & players making the side wagers. Have you seen that as well Deucekie?
When that is the case, none of the commission free versions make sense to the players. It is a clearly a regional phenomena and I was shocked that so many WA house would operate comm. free without compensation.....I found this out trying to talk up Dan's game at a property back in 2011. The TG Manager said 'we already offer commission free PGP & the players are not even required to make a minimum side bet'.....it was a learning experience for me.
This is a WA convention. The commission is skipped without any added house edge mechanisms to compensate, and the PGP tables in WA are 'loss leaders' for the house. It is a similar situation to where, - as a wishful example - that 3:2 single deck Blackjack is the rule for the houses, and you hope and PRAY - as the manager that the joint makes money. You'll see VERY heavy dependence on proprietary games, progressives, and other games to cover the houses' financial nut.
In cases where an EZ Pai Gow house allows player banking, the player-banker doesn't get to use a queen-high push; his hand plays for the probable loss as the hand that was dealt. The rule is 'Dealer's Queen-high Pai Gow pushes' - not the player's, even if banking. Players don't get the house edge mechanism.
Furthermore, the commission IS restored during banking - for the banker only. Non-banking players do not pay a commission at any time. And since there are no 25c pieces in the rack, the player-banker's commission is also rounded up to the nearest whole dollar.
At least as of 12 months ago there is one place I used to play regularly where this is not true. The player banker did enjoy the queen high push mechanism and they kept quarters in the rack.
But you can't bank any of these games can you? That is a serious problem for people that traditionally play this game.
It is really a bad thing?Ez Pai Gow
Dan, if I recall correctly, you've stated that the house edge for EZPG is actually slightly lower than standard PGP. (The casinos are OK with the lower edge, because EZPG gets more hands per hour by not farting around with those damn quarters.)
How much lower is it? If it's at least half as much as the difference in edge between house banked and player banked on PGP, then it should be a non-issue.